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Wiring question
04-10-2016, 11:12 AM (This post was last modified: 04-10-2016 11:19 AM by Rupe.)
Post: #11
RE: Wiring question
Just to keep you on track, make only one change at a time and that way you will learn where the mistake was.

Rather than turn the dist 180, turn the engine 360 then put the dist back on it's mark. This mark (thinking back 25 years ago) should be a rather small arrow on the top rim of the dist. Don't forget to allow for the rotation of the gear as the dist drops in. Once that is done try to start the engine.

If after a few tries it doesn't respond (and you are sure of the spark at the plugs) give it a quick shot of either. If the either helps then you need to hunt down a fuel problem. Keep a shop towel handy in case you do get a backfire.

As Garner stated, low fuel pressure may cause hard starting... and so will a vacuum leak. IOW, check all of your hoses too.

BTW, to lower the confusion level: GM used a distributor known as "HEI" back in the 70s and it had pretty much run it's course by the mid 80s. The HEI unit had the coil located in the top of the dist cap. While the unit you have does make a hotter spark than conventional points ignition, it is NOT an HEI unit. Also, if the decal under the hood calls for 0.080 plug gap that doesn't work too well in the long run. GM issued a bulletin and adjusted that to 0.060 at one point because of random misfire as the plugs wear.
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04-10-2016, 12:09 PM (This post was last modified: 04-10-2016 12:20 PM by 1991G20.)
Post: #12
RE: Wiring question
Yeah the engine is inside next to the gas pedal. G20 van so do do work you either pull the motor out through the front or take apart the doghouse center console.

Yeah its pretty similar to an hei but without the coil, it is a remote coil just between the dist and intake. It caused a biy of confusion at first because I didn't know which post was #1 (different for Pts and hei)

As for vaccuum, almost all of the parts are discontinued and I have had to start fabricating and replicating my own.
I'll check gaps on the plugs though. My sticker calls for .035 and They were replaced late last year before I did the valve job.

Somebody asked me if they could start her up while I checked fluids and then proceeded to trounce the pedal and almost blew the motor. Not a good day and he's lucky he still has his teeth.
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04-10-2016, 12:45 PM
Post: #13
RE: Wiring question
Ok, you are on the right track with the plug gap. I have forgotten exactly when that bulletin came out but it will always stick in my mind, which is why I share things like that.

The one thing I know that is not available these days is the rubber vac elbow in front of the throttle body. I have used a spark plug boot as a replacement because there's not usually enough room to use regular hose without kinking.

BTW, I follow were you are working because back in that era I had a fleet of G series vans, although most were diesel. (6.2 and 6.5 ltr)

One more thing... it wouldn't hurt to put a fresh gallon or two of fuel in the tank just in case it's too low or too old to have enough vapor for easy starting.
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04-13-2016, 07:26 PM
Post: #14
RE: Wiring question
How are we making out?
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04-13-2016, 10:24 PM
Post: #15
RE: Wiring question
T-T-T-Too cold outside. I miss having a garage.
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04-14-2016, 05:52 AM
Post: #16
RE: Wiring question
Where are you located that it's so cold? I'm in central PA and it's finally warming up nicely.

Thanks for using the forum,
Garner

Interested in Mining? Look here: Coal Mining, PA
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04-14-2016, 10:03 AM (This post was last modified: 04-14-2016 10:40 AM by Rupe.)
Post: #17
RE: Wiring question
Did you forget that he said he worked the overnight? Around here it's dropped into the 20s by the time he's done with his shift.

Edited to add: when we got that rain a few days ago it was snowing over in the Great Lakes region.
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04-16-2016, 02:33 PM (This post was last modified: 04-16-2016 02:39 PM by 1991G20.)
Post: #18
RE: Wiring question
Thanks rupe Smile yes, I work third shift, and when I get out its too cold ib the morning, let alone the day.
So, I finally got some warm weather and a day off and took another swing. Timing mark at the timing plate, not perfect zero but she is too tough to get there by hand. I have my valve covers off so I can see my rockers and #1 both arms are at home position, so I know both valves are closed at tdc on compression stroke. Distributor all the way in with rotor at #1 point and all wires are in the right places. All ignition wires and vaccuum lines hooked up (egr, evap sys, map, pcv, est, both harnesses at dst, coil/dst wire, everything) . Aaaaaaaaand still no joy. Still back fires though so that's a good thing right?. It should not be this hard to fire up though should it? I'm still concered about the two open wires in the main harness but that shouldn't matter for ignition should it?

Add: battery is cashed from all the cranking so im done for the day to let it rest and recharge.
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04-16-2016, 10:49 PM (This post was last modified: 04-17-2016 12:05 AM by Rupe.)
Post: #19
RE: Wiring question
Sorry for the delay. We had a VERY nice day here and I was busy welding patch panels on my 64 Corvair Van that I am restoring.

Just had a brain fart, and recalling in that era there were a set of wires that came out of the harness with matching plugs that can be connected together. (male and female) Their purpose was to set the base timing and they are called the "spout connector" in the book. I do not recall if they are normally connected or disconnected. Since most of my fleet in those days was diesel I'm kinda grabbing at straws. On most GM vehicles it was near the ECM or near the brake master cylinder.

Back to your no-start condition, I suspect you should fool with the dist timing. It may look close by eye but you could be off a tooth and you need to find the sweet spot again.

Hint #1: if it backfires through the intake it's probably retarded.
Hint #2: When using that spout connector I believe it retards the timing quite a bit so it may run like crap or be hard starting if it's not fully warmed up.

Edited to add: While my research didn't turn up the exact year in a van all the ones I did find mention a tan wire with a black tracer for the timing. (might be near the dist) The plug must be together for it to run well. The procedure is to fully warm up the engine then disconnect it to set the base timing with a timing light. Since this changes the timing 15 - 20 degrees it may cause hard starting and poor running when cold. IOW, try plugging that together and see if it will start.

Edited again: When you have the timing connector apart it will set a trouble code in the ECM so after you are all done pull both of the ECM fuses or the battery cable for a minute to clear the codes.
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04-17-2016, 06:04 AM (This post was last modified: 04-17-2016 06:06 AM by 1991G20.)
Post: #20
RE: Wiring question
I think you may be right but I don't thimk that's what these are. There's two of them, one is tan yes and the other is black with a white stripe. And they are way too short to get to the ecm or master cylinder. As far as I can see ive used up all the wires and harnesses but im obviously missing SOMETHING. Ill head to the front of the motor next time and start cleaning wires to see if I can find a color match.

Regarding timing, do you mean my EST? I unplugged it a few times since I was basically setting initial timing but I've left it in since she doesn't want to run. I thought it might help.

Yes, she spits up out the carb, so today i'll just keep trying to jump forward a tooth at a time. Yesterday I thought I had it, everything looked good, bullseye on the timing plate, rotor matched marks i made on dst body and intake so i must be close. Thanks again!

PS good luck on the corvair. Any pictures? I am planning on restoring the body on this van too.
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