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Wiring question
04-17-2016, 10:07 AM (This post was last modified: 04-17-2016 10:10 AM by Rupe.)
Post: #21
RE: Wiring question
I believe you are correct with GM calling the timing set wires EST so maybe it's Ford calling it a spout connector. Either way we're on the same page. It's been too many years to remember some of those details.

Here's a shot of my project so far. While it was a "down south" vehicle with no structural rust it was also a working man's truck, with holes for mounting stuff all over. Last winter I fixed the roof and continued down the front so I could get the lights back in for driving, then puttered with rear rocker panels, dents, and such starting in the rear. (exhaust fumes leaking in) That's why it's partially in primer. Typical of a working van, people leave the windows open and rain gets under the mats so I have spent this past winter patching floor boards and inside / outside rocker panels. Driver's side is almost done except for the door itself, which will be another month of Sundays. Nobody makes replacement sheet metal parts for these because they are too rare, unlike the G van, which has parts all over eBay and JC Whitney.

BTW, attachment size on this board is limited to around 500 kb and rolls off availability wise after a certain time period. (90 days?)


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04-17-2016, 10:33 AM
Post: #22
RE: Wiring question
Looks good so far.

On mine I want to remove all of the plastic skirting and re-do all of the lower body. Its a michigan vehicle so the undercarrige looks ok but body is cancerous. Then strip off all the paint and throw primer red on. Maybe roll it for a summer painted up like the van from SLC Punk! the movie, but ultimatly I think I'll end up with a gloss black with the white Venom Spider insignia. Re do the upolstry red too. Maybe take out the side demi door and install a rolling door.
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04-17-2016, 12:34 PM
Post: #23
RE: Wiring question
If you try to do an OEM sliding door make sure you get one with decent parts. Having a fleet with 34 of them I stocked all of the little guides, rollers, spacers, bushings, and special screws, which cost a fortune... and that was over 20 years ago. Back then it was easy to see $200 - $300 worth of parts fly out the window just making one door correct. Also, I'd bet those parts are not easily available from the dealer. I still do fleet work and GM has tightened their belt on old inventory to a point where I can't get stuff for 10 year old vehicles, and many of those are not in the aftermarket at all.
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04-17-2016, 03:29 PM (This post was last modified: 04-17-2016 03:43 PM by 1991G20.)
Post: #24
RE: Wiring question
Could always fabricate /Smile

Anyways, to clarify, I SHOULD disconnect my EST just like setting initial timing, yes? And is it safe to use a small piece of wire to jump the OBD-I A,B connections to clear trouble codes? Check light is on after all, maybe thats the cause of this headache?

Edit: just found something. My est harness and oxy sensor harness are identical! Let's swap those real quick.
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04-17-2016, 05:39 PM
Post: #25
RE: Wiring question
Using the jumper on the OBD connector will not generally clear any codes. That's for reading the codes. To clear the codes pull a battery cable or both ECM fuses.

On that harness, I'll bet the wire colors are different. Back in those days there were many similar connectors. Not so today!

BTW, if you are not sure you can leave the O2 wire off for now and it wont make any difference till it warms up and sets a code, which you can clear later.
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04-17-2016, 05:48 PM
Post: #26
RE: Wiring question
The battery has been completly removed, multiple times. Still says check engine.

As for the harness, there is no connector, just open wires. Ive crawled all over and found no matching colors except for some running lights but those were conplete circuits, nothing missing.

I cleaned up the o2 and est lines and can now be distinguished. Not sure if they were mismatched before, judging by the bends in the wires i had it right the first time.

I took off the fuel lines @ the throttle body to check for clogs and the left was full, right was empty. If i kick key to on, the left flows, right does not. Its not a return line is it? I think its a fuel injected throttle body. Two injectors, two plates.
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04-17-2016, 07:42 PM
Post: #27
RE: Wiring question
Wow, you have opened a can of worms here.

Let's start with the CEL... You say it's on, but it's supposed to be on if you have the key on with the engine not running.

On the fuel lines... yes, one is the supply line and the other is a return line. You can't guess at fuel pressure. It needs to be 10 - 12 psi and hold after the pump shuts off. (key on, engine off) You must use a proper gauge here.

The fuel should spray when the engine cranks. You can see that with a flashlight looking at the injectors.

What we haven't established yet is if the cam and ignition timing are correct. Have you verified TDC at the piston in case the pulley mark has moved? Have you verified that you are using the right mark? (there's more than one) Some of these engines had as many as three marks in the crank damper, which will throw you a curve ball if you don't know about it. The correct position will have a mark at roughly 10 o'clock, 2 o'clock and 4 o'clock.... then of course you need to be TDC on the compression stroke. You may need to get a helper so someone can turn the engine by hand and the other can check the piston as it moves.

BTW, an old trick for these things when there's no room to look is to force a piece of vac hose into the plug hole (tight fit) and hold your finger over the end while you turn the engine. When you feel the pressure building start watching for the marks to line up.
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04-17-2016, 08:07 PM
Post: #28
RE: Wiring question
Can o worms? Thats not comforting.

CEL is comforting however and i am confident in fuel pressure. That was a nice mess.

Though the entire process ive been keeping an eye on my injectors. I did not see spray on latest test. Previously, I did have a flash fire @the throttle plate. That wouldn't melt the injector in a few seconds would it? I put it out quick.

Ok, so what i did for TDC was key crank until the groove running the entire thickness of the damper lined with the timing plate and the rockers were both at home; read valves closed ( mark I eyeball, valve covers off). She would not budge by hand even with plugs out. Can i make it easier so i CAN hand turn?

I really, really, REALLY do not want to verify timing marks on the cam chain because i have to reoive the water pump to get to it and i think we all know how much fun those are. And im tired of taking the serpentine on and off.
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04-17-2016, 10:47 PM
Post: #29
RE: Wiring question
No, a few seconds of fire wont melt the injectors. (scene flashing from the Wizard of Oz scare crow)

What will keep the injectors from supplying fuel is lack of ignition signal or a ground wire missing. (at the t-stat bolt on some) Of course this presumes there's fuel pressure in the lines so make sure the pump is running when it's supposed to.

As I was saying earlier, there is likely more than one mark on that pulley and they all look the same. Your first job is to verify TDC with the compression stroke... and the engine should turn by hand using the right socket (9/16 or 5/8) and a 1/2" breaker bar. I doubt you can move things with a 3/8" ratchet even with the plugs out. The key here is verifying at the piston. If the valves don't jive you only have to go another turn to double check. Once you figure out the (multiple) timing marks you can get back to base timing the distributor.

BTW, those valves will look like they are seated for almost a full turn of the crank so that's why I keep pushing TDC via feeling compression.
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04-18-2016, 06:03 AM (This post was last modified: 04-20-2016 05:58 AM by Garner.)
Post: #30
RE: Wiring question
That's pretty much the same reason I keep pushing turning the dist. 180. I've been out to fix soooo many vehicles that the other mechanic swears is on TDC, Compression stroke. He's positive! I take the dist. bolt out, lift the dist., turn the rotor 180, slip it back into place, hit the key, and the engine fires up. It's a quick and easy thing to try. I carry a "White Out" pen in my pocket. I take the dist. cap off and use the white out pen to mark the location of the rotor and also the 180 position before taking the bolt out. It does the exact same thing as turning the motor 360 except without all of the extra time and effort. And if it makes things worse it's really simple to put it back where it was. And if it works, I use the white out pen to clearly identify the correct timing marks. If you wipe things off first, white out will last a long time and is pretty easy to see.

Also; as Rupe mentioned, you have to check the fuel pressure with a gauge. A lot of flow means absolutely nothing. If the proper "Pressure" isn't there it's not going to run. Unless I missed it somewhere I don't recall if you tried giving it a shot of starting fluid. I was curious to what happened with that? I'd hate to see you work for days on the timing only to find a bad pressure regulator, fuel pump, or fuel filter.

Thanks for using the forum,
Garner

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